Outrage! This is what our diploma will look like?
It was brought to my attention at lunch today, that many of the graduates were very surprised to see what was actually handed to them at graduation. A lingering graduate offered to let us take pictures of this new diploma. Please note-
- It is presented in a paper binder that looks like something that comes from Kinko's
- Is not a very good paper stock
- Does not have an embossed seal.
Who do you think sat down at our table while the next to graduate G5's were in an uproar over this diploma business —the president of the college, Barbara Vaccarr. We were told to talk to Julie.Martin@goddard.edu Dean of Institutional Advancement
802-322-1622 to discuss our opinions on this new design.
Our thoughts are:
- It is not really something that we would want to hang on our wall.
- We paid a lot of money, it would be nice to get something that looked like our education was worth it.
- The diploma reflects on the school, it is not good "branding" to be handing these things out.
In defense of the new diploma
( journalist in me is forced to do this)
- It is recycled paper and therefore reflects the nature of Goddard.
- A lot of time and possibly money went into this investment of the new look.
Robin, a G5, has agreed, I hope it was not in jest, to take our thoughts to the appropriate person. So, we would love to hear what you think? Graduates weigh in, either on this blog post or the facebook post. G5's, G4's, what do you think? Others?
Because this is a personal blog I'll start.
I appreciate recycling, but not sure I want it to apply to my degree. Personally, give me some fake leather binder and the usual diploma. I do, after all, have to present this to the rest of the world, and I might not have time, or want to put a disclaimer on my wall, should I chose to hang it up.
And because a picture is worth a thousand words, though this paper might not be worth the thousands of dollars that each of us spent on our degree, here are some photographs of the diploma.
posted by isculpt at
11:14 AM
17 Comments:
Hi all,
Thank ypu Robin!!
Some of the graduates and myself have had a lengthy conversation about the diploma that was handed to us on July, 24, 2011. The diploma is not acceptable. I have had a conversation with Jackie and with her direction, I will be writing an email to her today. She will then get the ball rolling.
To my colleagues and friends we will get this changed and the graduates will get the diploma that we deserve as a rights of passage, respect and tradition that holds great value.
I did go and talk to Laura Deluca. I was not happy when she said that the change was part of the "branding of Goddard College". I personal do not want my educational traditional to be part of a commercial branding. I feel they have taken away a right that has been established for a very long time.
Thank Bridgette for posting this on your blog.
With great respect to you all,
Nancy
By
Unknown, at 6:47 AM
Many thanks for this, I too was more than disappointed with what I received as well. It looks like the diploma my son got for graduating Kindergarten. I am confused as to what our graduation fee covers? We pay for the binding for our portfolios, there are no hoods provided...where does that money go? We must as a group demand better, it was far too expensive and we all invested so much of ourselves, it just has to be changed.
Congratulations to all on their accomplishment!
Jeremy Czarniak
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Unknown, at 10:11 AM
I was very sad to learn of this. We are still largely a credential society, and these things matter. I have worked in both higher education and printing for over 30 years, and I find this very disappointing, since it is a relatively small thing to fix. I would agree that this is unacceptable, and I will be writing to Goddard administrators both in my capacity as an alumni, and as a former Associate Professor and AAUP member. This will not stand! David McCurry, EdD, MFA.
By
David Scott McCurry, at 7:37 AM
As a 2008 graduate - MFA program,my diploma has a little more pizzazz. I can understand your angst. Most definitely - Kindergarten material. Knowing that I will most likely be dead before my student loan is paid off - I would want to receive something that had a little more class along with my hard earned degree.
By
Bev Hmel, at 7:39 AM
Hi Robin, I just started co-Administering the Goddard College Facebook group. I saw your post there, which led me to this blog post. I'm an alumnus, and I had the old diploma format. I pulled out my diploma and did a comparison. I share your outrage and your sentiment about branding. Please keep us posted on your progress. Solidarity.
By
Alexis Emilia, at 8:04 AM
Someone suggested I gather all posts and post them all under this blog post. I am doing so. These are from MY FACEBOOK PAGE ON THIS SUBJECT, as well as the GODDARD GROUP FACEBOOK PAGE and the GODDARD COLLEGE MFA-IA group. If anyone does not want their comment here please forgive me, and let me know I’ll delete it.)
FACEBOOK PAGE GODDARD COLLEGE MFAIA
As of August 8, 2011
David McCurry
I just posted a comment on the blog. This is unacceptable. I am contacting the AAUP and the New England Association of Schools and Colleges (Goddard's accrediting agency) for guidance on posting complaints and getting Goddard administration to correct this error. BTW, on our diplomas (handed to us at graduation Feb. 2009) there was actually a typo, which the college corrected and apologized for.
Bridgette Mongeon
thanks David. Any help with this is appreciated. Jackie suggested we talk to the person in charge, listed on the blog post, and come with questions and inquisitiveness instead of irritation. I kind of need someone to give me some feedback on that. Not that great with diplomacy- I guess, especially when I am irritated.
David McCurry
I think a certain amount of healthy outrage over this is warranted.
David McCurry
A diploma is also a legal document, and as such needs to be authenticated with a raised seal. I don't think, in this day and age of identity theft and fake diploma mills online, that moving to a cheaper and less distinct printing is move in the right direction. A printed seal, and non-handwritten signature of authorized administration may legally be allowable, but it is simply cheap and callous and does not speak well of Goddard's distinction or overall quality.
Alexis Emilia
Hi Bridgette, I read your blog post and left a comment. For some reason I addressed my comment to Robin. (Maybe it's because I've been up since 4 AM and haven't had breakfast yet.) I share your concerns.
Re: Jackie's suggestions about inquisitiveness, I also have a tendency to be passionate about subjects. I know that passion can sometimes shut down conversation, so I find it's better to process my emotions (talk to loved ones, journal, rant through social media, etc.) and then collect my thoughts and present my questions dispassionately.
Your blog post was great in acknowledging some of their reasons for change, which you understand. As an experienced contract negotiator, I would advise that you focus on their primary motivation (branding), what they mean by branding (is their end goal to attract more students or to modernize the appearance of all printed and marketing materials?), and offer illustrations on how their actions are actually counterproductive to their goals.
Continue to network with current students and alumni and encourage them to post here, on your blog, directly to the decision maker(s), and do whatever else you think would be helpful. Solidarity.
By
isculpt, at 9:44 AM
MORE-
RESPONSES TO THE POST IN THE GODDARD COLLEGE FACEBOOK GROUP
Michael Dickins
Seriously?!?! That's the diploma they got. I'd be highly dissapointed, too (pissed acutally).
Caetlin Harwood
As a level 8 this time around, I'm disappointed to see that this is what I have to look forward to. Surely, with a creative bunch like we have at Goddard, we can't come up with something a little more professional?
Bridgette Mongeon
Wish I could get some of the comments to post here. Many people talked about it on my facebook wall on the July 27th post. Even alumni. Very disappointing. Can you believe the schools thought, this is their branding? I would like to talk to the person and give them a chance to give their side of the story and post it.
Michael Lent
That's a travesty. I live in Europe where they actually want to see your diploma and don't use transcripts. I've had to show my Goddard diploma several times and would not have been happy with this.
Bridgette Mongeon There was a great post just posted on the blog and on the mfai facebook group by david.
Michael Dean Circe
As a recent graduate, I was more than shocked at the look of the diploma. And a little pissed. After all our hard work, not to mention the financial investment, I think we deserve something much more professional. My community college diploma looked far better. I hope this is not indicative of how seriously employers will take a Goddard education.
Bridgette Mongeon Yes, we who are next to graduate are very concerned that this will be solved before our graduation and those that received this diploma had a terrible let down as their final time at Goddard. Some would not even show it, as the blog states.
Michael Dean Circe
I definitely think the upcoming graduates should let their concerns be heard. I have not been in a rush to frame my diploma, or even to show it to anyone, because it just doesn't look like something that represents an accomplishment. It's almost disrespectful. "We took your money and you worked incredibly hard to earn a degree, and here's your diploma we made at Kinko's."
By
isculpt, at 9:45 AM
MOREMORE-
RESPONSES TO THE POST IN THE GODDARD COLLEGE FACEBOOK GROUP- CONT
Caetlin Harwood
soooooo, who do we talk to exactly?
Shawn Kerivan
While it's commendable for Goddard College to put its sustainability philosophy into action, I'm not sure the diploma is the right place for it. I agree with the sentiment heard throughout this thread: the diploma is a concrete manifestation of your work and success at the college. It should look like it will last, just as the knowledge you gained will last. And it should be suitable for framing. I'll bring this to the attention of my Creative Writing Mafia cohorts and see if we can't put some pressure on the college to change this. Thanks--Shawn Kerivan, MFA, Creative Writing 2006.
Michael Dean Circe
Well said, Shawn. I would suggest people get together as a group, perhaps putting something in writing, and present it to the program directors. Perhaps the issue should go even higher than that. President Brenda Vaccaro, maybe?
Alexis Emilia
I just read about this in the Goddard MFA-IA group on Facebook. Bridgette, my suggestion is that you cut and paste comments from this group, the MFA-IA group, and your blog into one document, and present it to the decision maker. I addressed my comment on your blog post as Robin. Sorry about that, I haven't had breakfast yet.
Bridgette Mongeon
if you read the post you will see that the president sat at our lunch table when we were in a huff about this. you can read her comments. She passed the buck to those mentioned in the blog post. the registrars office was kind of put out by our disslike, someone later heard a reply from the school, "well there was a time when Goddard students chose not even to get the piece of paper." I was told in our finishers meeting that the fake leather bound books were found in the garbage, we told him we would all agree that anyone that did not want theirs they would recycle them. Traveling with a kinkos binder is a nightmare.
Bridgette Mongeon
yes, I am having a lot of posts in different spots. I'll do that now, take all of these comments, hopefully no one minds and put them on the blog.
Wasentha Young
I graduated in 1999 and felt the same way about the look of my diploma. It was even printed crocked
By
isculpt, at 9:45 AM
FROM MY FACEBOOK PAGE
Mary Edwards
This is exactly my stance. The Diploma is a certification and a rite of passage. To design it with a modicum of prestige is not a difficult task, any more than it takes to produce it to look like the rote afterthought as evidenced in this document that bears little resemblance to what was bestowed on us in 2007. Keep pressing forward to get something worthy of the option of display.
Bridgette Mongeon
Thanks Mary. I must say, so far our meetings with the "powers that be" have not been very productive. Hearing things like, "no one wants a leather binder, we find them in the trash, or "The old ones had a gold stamp from staples." Interesting...
Mary Edwards
I lend my support to this matter 100%. Please excuse that my initial commentary was more reactive than responsive. I realized after re-reading your blog that you were looking at the other side of the issue. I was not attacking your journalistic integrity, but imagining that those would be verbatim what the committee may reason. Thank you for documenting this and bringing it to our attention. Had this been another institution, the re-design would have not even made approval.
Bridgette Mongeon
mary, I don't feel attacked at all. I just want to dialogue about this, have discussions see what others think. We are also asking the question, "who approved this?" I'm interested in all view points. Personally, I'm disappointed. I would never display this and if this is what I am going to get in February, and if I can't display it, I can't even tuck it on the shelf in the pretty binder next to the other degree. So sad. I guess I'm also old fashioned-I like the old language. Nancy is right! here kids diplomas look better than hers. I hope we can resolve this before graduation, but I'm not sure how we can have a guarantee, and I wish those graduates who are disappointed from this residency could get a different diploma
Mary Edwards
I agree, and there seems to be no rationale other than a cost-cutting tactic. I was the last of five siblings to graduate from the same high school, and somehow the quality of the yearbook design well below the standard of what my brothers and sister received--theirs was cloth-bound, mine was a cheaply laminated cardboard. even the quality of the photo images were poor. It was a testament to someone taking a production shortcut. Our educations are far too great an investment to accept substandard documentation of our achievement.
ANOTHER PLACE ON MY FACEBOOK PAGE
Mary Edwards
Are they @#$%&* kidding? I'm one appalled and embarrassed Alumna...
AND YET ANOTHER PLACE ON MY FACEBOOK PAGE
Jeffrey M. Donato
hmmmm yeah, that's kinda dumb.
Thais Grele,
kind of a let down
By
isculpt, at 9:46 AM
AND YET ANOTHER PLACE ON MY FACEBOOK PAGE- CONT
Lori Murphy.
My IBA diploma looks much nicer,this isn't very professional looking..
Leighanna Davis
that looks like an end of year certificate I would give one of my 6th grade students. Definitely need a redesign!
Jason Beaudreau
that is pretty weak...
Sienna Fontaine
I am very disappointed to see the lack of professional quality and showing of value to the students. We did earn (and pay for) our graduate degrees didn't we? Though just a piece of paper, these have to be able to represent the vigor of the program as they hang on our walls or in our offices.
Bridgette Mongeon
thanks guys, please encougae others to share tehir thoughts.
Byron Breese
Yes, a raised seal would be nice and there are very good quality recycled papers out there. Should not the Chair of the Board of Trustees also sign it?
Bridgette Mongeon
I'd like a stiffer binder, as someone said, don't they realize that most of these people travel or fly to residency?
C. Robin Marcotte
As I told Barbara Vacarr, "I can't hang this up next to my husband's M.D." It's embarrassing.
Rod Crossman
I have arrived home from my recent Goddard graduation , I have tucked my diploma safely away between the pages of my favorite journal. I love the modesty and humility of this document. It is unpretentious, and unostentatious. We waste so much of the worlds precious resources on ourselves already. Is symbolism more important than substance?
Kriota Willberg
Rod, you are always the voice of consideration, wisdom, and humility. I'm gonna miss you! The diploma does look a little "ink jet" but I do appreciate Goddard's attempt at the low-impact thing. Perhaps some recycled bells and whistles may be more appropriate... But Rod is right, the processes beats the paper.
Caroline Ailanthus
There is no reason whatever that recycled paper has to be poor quality. It's simply not an either/or issue.
Nancy Volante
Unless I am wrong folks then exchange the styrofoam take out containers for sustainable products. Rod as I respect what you are saying and love you. I disagree. I think symbolism is very important that is how we all started and substance is integrity. Goddard in the name of tradition should give us more respect for the hard work and money we have spent through symbolism and integrity. "Branding" is not part of our diploma.
Rod Crossman Hi Nancy I love you too! no worries. It seems many of our graduates are hurting about this.... that is what concerns me most. I wish there was something I could do to help
By
isculpt, at 9:46 AM
ALSO CHECK OUT THIS BLOG POST WITH NANCY’S LETTER AND PHOTOGRAPHS- GO NANCY!
http://perpetuallearner.blogspot.com/2011/07/more-about-diplomas-outrage-from.html
By
isculpt, at 9:47 AM
I’ll update this more as they come in. Also note our class sent this letter to Ms. Martin
Dear Ms. Martin,
We students (copied on this email) are in the MFA-IA in Vermont and would like to address a large concern we have with the new diplomas.
It recently came to our attention that when the Fall 2011 Graduates received their long-awaited diploma, it had changed drastically from what it had been in the past.
We understand that Goddard is in the midst of a re-branding campaign and the redesign of the diploma is part of it, but we hope there is room for compromise.
We all have a great respect for Goddard and want nothing more than to see it thrive. It is a place where many of us have grown beyond what we knew was possible. We feel this diploma needs to stand as tall as others in academia. Attached you will find other MFA diplomas that might one day be displayed next to Goddard’s while out in the world. This visual impression is not one we are comfortable with or proud of--and believe that many would agree.
When we hang these up in our homes and offices, we want this terminal degree’s significance to be as respected as our collegial partners. Currently, the aesthetic of the diploma does not correspond with the amount of work we have put into our degree. We are proud of what we are doing and have accomplished. This diploma is symbolic of our MFA. We believe Goddard’s degree deserves more respect, and request that we find ground for compromise.
We are requesting the following be changed:
1. Embossing of the seal. Our transcripts need this; our diplomas should, too.
2. The Program Director's signature on the Diploma, as well as the President’s.
3. The formal language added back to the diploma confirming the degree conferral.
Below is what we would appreciate being changed:
1. We would like the traditional diploma folder again, perhaps as an option. We are willing to pay more if money is an issue.
2. Changing some of the fonts to make it look more significant.
3. Please have it printed on textured paper.
If Goddard strives to be the “bastion of truly student-centered, progressive education” as it says in our history, please let our voice be the action. We will be looking at this diploma for the rest of our lives as a reflection of Goddard College.
Additionally, we would like to see the design guide that was given for the re-branding. Perhaps we can make suggestions that would correspond to the current re-branding.
Lastly, once we resolve this issue, a significant number of the Fall 2011 MFA-IAVT class would like the option to have their diplomas reprinted.
We look forward to hearing your response and working together.
Sincerely,
IT IS SIGNED BY MOST OF OUR GRADUATING CLASS.
By
isculpt, at 9:47 AM
That was an incredibly respectful, yet direct and effective letter. I did not graduate from Goddard (I'm a Lesley Alum), but I did study there for five long, trying, wonderful semesters. Those of you who have mentioned that the current document does not reflect the amount of work required for a Goddard degree couldn't be more right. I truly encourage your efforts.
I am currently considering the possibility of returning to Goddard to pursue my MFA. It would be hyperbole for me to say that this issue alone would make me choose not to enroll, but it certainly will be a consideration. If I am going to work toward--and pay for--a respected terminal degree, I want the final product testifying to that work to reflect the true experience. This current degree design does not.
Best of luck in your endeavors. I hope you find the administration receptive to hearing your concerns.
Duncan Dwyer
Individualized BA program, 1996-1997
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Duncan Dwyer, at 10:54 AM
Our diploma had a proper holder with an embossed seal and all. It looked pretty good but for the date which has huge gaps between the words like so:
this day of , in the year 2011
None of us said anything because... well you know.
By
David, at 12:59 PM
C. Robin Marcotte wrote on the facebook posts.
Hi everyone - Just a heads-up: the administration has been respectful in hearing our views on the diploma matter. They are willing to listen and, to my knowledge, have not shut anyone down about it. From what I understand they are collaboratively working with students and alum to come to a compromise. Let's take a breath for a moment and know it's being worked on.
Thanks Robin for your great letter and heading this up
By
isculpt, at 2:16 PM
I would have been very disappointed to have received such a documnet. The diploma is very important. The author of "The First Day of School recommends that teachers displays theirs in their classrooms. A couple of years ago the daughter of (then) Gov. Manchin was embroiled in a controversy over her degree from WVU. She was challenged to produce her diploma as proof of graduation. The average person has an idea of what a diploma should look like and that is not it. Sustainability does not have to mean ugly or flimsy. There's nothing wrong with a "re-branding" or a different logo--just make it attractive and in keeping with the diplomas granted by any established university.. Would you want to be seen by a doctor who had such a credential on the wall? Oh, and my binder did not end up in the trash. Marie W.(MA in Ed '04)
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trillium, at 1:05 PM
While I am only a G3, I totally agree. I have taught 2nd grade for a long time and the certificates that I gave at the end of the year were way nicer than those graduate diplomas! That "branding" response really sounds like a corner cutting cop out. I hope heir new brand image isn't cheap and inconsiderate! That would be really disappointing. My Goddard experience has been so fantastic so far and I hope that this is sorted out by the time I graduate in summer 2012. Thank y'all for taking this on. It is important!
Kelly IMA
By
Unknown, at 6:30 AM
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